The Ultimate Guide to Holiday Proposals in South Jersey & Philadelphia Suburbs

Planning a holiday proposal in the Greater Philadelphia area? December is the most popular month for engagements, with nearly 19% of all proposals happening during the holiday season. From sparkling Christmas displays at Longwood Gardens to intimate moments along Cooper River, South Jersey and the Philadelphia suburbs offer extraordinary backdrops for your life-changing question. This guide reveals the most romantic proposal locations from Mount Laurel to the Main Line, perfect timing strategies, and expert advice on selecting the ideal engagement ring before the holiday rush.

Table of Contents

• Why the Holiday Season Is Perfect for Proposals
  
• Most Romantic Proposal Locations
  
• Holiday Proposal Timing Strategy
  
• Selecting Your Engagement Ring
  
• Complete Planning Guide
  
• Expert Tips from Marks Jewelers
  
• Frequently Asked Questions
  
• Start Your Proposal Journey
  

Why the Holiday Season Is Perfect for Proposals

The holiday season holds special magic for proposals, making it the most popular time of year for couples to get engaged. According to wedding industry data, approximately 47% of all engagements occur between November and February, with December alone accounting for 19% of yearly proposals. Christmas Day consistently ranks as the #1 most popular proposal day, followed by Christmas Eve, New Year's Eve, and New Year's Day.

What makes holiday proposals so appealing? The season naturally creates romantic opportunities—most people have time off work, family and friends gather together, and festive atmospheres with twinkling lights and decorated spaces add natural romance to any proposal setting. The gift-giving tradition of Christmas also provides perfect cover for your surprise proposal, maintaining the element of surprise while your partner expects typical holiday celebrations.

For couples in South Jersey and the Philadelphia suburbs, the Delaware Valley transforms into a winter wonderland during the holidays. From Longwood Gardens' 550,000+ twinkling lights to Philadelphia's iconic holiday displays, the region offers diverse proposal settings accommodating every couple's style. Whether you prefer grand public gestures at spectacular light shows or quiet private moments at historic locations, the abundance of festive venues ensures you'll find the perfect spot that reflects your unique relationship.

Most Romantic Proposal Locations

Longwood Gardens (Kennett Square, PA) - Premier Holiday Destination

Longwood Gardens transforms into a breathtaking wonderland during "A Longwood Christmas" (November 22, 2025 through January 12, 2026), making it the region's premier holiday proposal destination. This world-class horticultural garden features over 550,000 twinkling lights, dozens of beautifully decorated Christmas trees, and spectacular fountain shows set to holiday music.

The 2025 season showcases gemstone-inspired décor with gilded accents, towering trees in jewel tones (sapphire blue, ruby red, emerald green), and crystal-like ornaments creating magical atmosphere. The famous 200-foot light tunnel—one of the most photographed spots—creates an enchanting archway perfect for proposals. The conservatories feature themed rooms including a Music Room with a 12-foot Fraser fir rising from a jewelry box, surrounded by gilded dishware and mirrors that multiply the luminous details.

Outdoor highlights include illuminated London Plane trees with hanging star ornaments, the Main Fountain Garden with synchronized light shows (750 jets dancing to holiday music), and the Garden Railway featuring miniature Longwood landmarks. The Italian Water Garden glows with orbs, while the Large Lake features a 25-foot tree backed by hanging stars near the Chimes Tower.

Proposal strategy: Arrive during less crowded afternoon hours (2-4 PM), then propose as evening falls and lights become more dramatic. For more privacy, choose outdoor garden areas away from main conservatory traffic. Critical details: Timed tickets required and sell out daily—book weeks in advance online. Adult tickets $42. Open 10 AM-11 PM daily. Located at 1001 Longwood Road, Kennett Square (45 minutes from Mount Laurel).

Cooper River Park (Pennsauken, Cherry Hill, Collingswood)

This 346-acre linear park spans multiple townships and offers beautiful waterfront views along Cooper River Lake. The park features a 3.8-mile bike loop, scenic gazebos including the Wallenberg Gazebo overlooking water, and the historic Camden County Boathouse with picturesque docks. During holidays, propose at a gazebo with sunset reflections on the lake, or choose the intimate Hopkins House picnic area for privacy. The park's multiple access points allow you to find quieter spots away from crowds.

Best time: Late afternoon for sunset proposals (4-5 PM in December)
Distance from Mount Laurel: 15 minutes

Philadelphia Museum of Art Steps

The iconic "Rocky Steps" offer instant recognition and dramatic city skyline views. Propose at the top with the Philadelphia skyline behind you, or use the steps themselves with the museum's neoclassical architecture framing the moment. The Azalea Garden and Waterworks Gazebo behind the museum provide more intimate alternatives with beautiful water views along Boathouse Row.

Best time: Early morning (7-9 AM) or weekday afternoons for fewer crowds
Distance from Mount Laurel: 25 minutes via I-676

Rittenhouse Square (Center City Philadelphia)

This historic William Penn-planned square becomes especially romantic during holidays with thousands of white twinkle lights wrapped around trees. The park's fountain, benches, and open areas provide flexible proposal settings. During winter evenings, the square empties out from daytime crowds, offering surprising privacy in the heart of the city. Surrounding upscale restaurants and hotels provide immediate celebration options.

Best time: Evening (7-9 PM) for holiday lights, especially beautiful in December
Distance from Mount Laurel: 20 minutes via I-676

Grounds for Sculpture (Hamilton Township, NJ)

Located 30 minutes from Mount Laurel, this 42-acre sculpture park features over 270 contemporary sculptures among beautifully landscaped grounds. The park takes on special enchantment during winter, with sculptures creating dramatic silhouettes against snowy backgrounds. Propose beside a meaningful sculpture, or choose one of the park's hidden garden alcoves for intimacy. The unique artistic setting ensures your proposal photos will be one-of-a-kind.

Best time: Morning visits (10 AM-12 PM) for fewer crowds
Distance from Mount Laurel: 30 minutes

Additional Notable Locations

Elfreth's Alley (Philadelphia): America's oldest residential street (dating to 1702) features cobblestone streets and 18th-century homes creating timeless Colonial proposal settings. Morning visits (9-11 AM) avoid tourist crowds. 20 minutes from Mount Laurel.

Boathouse Row (Philadelphia): Historic Victorian boathouses illuminated at night with lights reflected in the Schuylkill River create iconic backdrops. Evening proposals (6-8 PM) capture the illuminated beauty. 30 minutes from Mount Laurel.

Cape May Beach: The nation's oldest seaside resort offers Victorian charm combined with oceanfront beauty. Winter proposals provide dramatic Atlantic Ocean backdrops without summer crowds. Sunset Beach at sunset (4:30 PM December) offers spectacular views. 60 minutes from Mount Laurel.

Holiday Proposal Timing Strategy

Christmas Eve (December 24) - Second Most Popular Day

Advantages: Many families exchange gifts on Christmas Eve, making it a natural time to present the engagement ring. The anticipation of Christmas Day adds excitement, and proposing on the 24th gives you Christmas Day to celebrate with family already gathered. The festive atmosphere provides beautiful settings without Christmas Day exhaustion.

Considerations: If your family celebrates primarily on Christmas Day, proposing the night before might overshadow Christmas morning traditions. Some families have packed Christmas Eve schedules with church services and gatherings, making it harder to find the right private moment.

Best for: Couples whose families emphasize Christmas Eve celebrations, those wanting to maximize family celebration time, proposers seeking slightly less predictable timing than Christmas Day.

Christmas Day (December 25) - Most Popular Proposal Day

Advantages: Christmas Day ranks as the #1 most popular proposal day because families are already together, allowing immediate sharing of joy. The gift-giving tradition provides perfect cover—your partner expects to exchange presents, maintaining surprise. The day's inherent romance and significance add meaning to your proposal, while festive atmosphere and decorations create natural romance without additional planning.

Considerations: Christmas Day can be hectic with multiple family commitments, making it challenging to find the right moment. Your proposal will forever tie to Christmas, which some love while others prefer a distinct anniversary date. Restaurants and many attractions are closed, limiting celebration options.

Best for: Couples who want to share the moment immediately with gathered family, those who embrace connecting their anniversary to Christmas, proposers comfortable with family-focused celebrations.

New Year's Eve (December 31) - Fifth Most Popular Day

Advantages: The midnight countdown provides a dramatic, built-in romantic moment. New Year's Eve parties offer celebration atmosphere, or you can plan intimate private celebrations. Proposing as one year ends and another begins creates powerful symbolism about starting your future together. Many couples already plan special New Year's Eve dates, maintaining surprise.

Considerations: New Year's Eve can be expensive for restaurants and events. Crowded venues might not provide the intimacy some couples prefer. Cold weather and potential transportation challenges in city areas require planning.

Best for: Couples who enjoy New Year's Eve celebrations, those wanting dramatic countdown moments, proposers comfortable with higher costs and crowds.

New Year's Day (January 1) - Fourth Most Popular Day

Advantages: Starting the new year engaged provides beautiful symbolism and fresh-start energy. January 1 proposals often happen in quieter, more intimate settings than New Year's Eve's party atmosphere. The holiday break continues, allowing time for celebration and initial wedding planning. Your anniversary date remains easy to remember as the first day of the year.

Considerations: Some people feel exhausted from New Year's Eve celebrations. January 1 can feel quieter and less festive than December dates. Weather may be particularly cold for outdoor proposals.

Best for: Couples preferring quieter intimate proposals, those who want New Year symbolism without party atmosphere, proposers seeking post-holiday calm.

Selecting Your Engagement Ring

Why Start Ring Shopping 6-8 Weeks Before Your Proposal

Custom engagement ring design typically requires 3-4 weeks from initial consultation to finished piece, including design consultations, 3D rendering creation, prototype production, final approval, manufacturing, and quality control. Even ready-made rings usually require sizing, taking 1-2 weeks depending on design complexity. Starting 6-8 weeks early provides comfortable buffer for design refinements and unexpected delays.

Jewelers experience peak business during November and December as couples prepare for holiday proposals. Custom design consultations, ring manufacturing schedules, and sizing services all face longer wait times during this rush. Starting early ensures you're ahead of the holiday crush and allows you to explore options thoughtfully without feeling rushed by your proposal deadline.

Understanding Your Ring Selection Options

Ready-made engagement rings sit in showroom cases ready for immediate purchase (pending sizing). Marks Jewelers maintains the largest bridal selection in Bucks and Montgomery Counties, offering hundreds of ready-made options across all styles and price points. This option works well if you find a ring that perfectly matches your partner's style and your timeline is tight.

Semi-custom modifications start with an existing ring design but allow modifications—changing the center diamond size, switching metal types, altering side stone configurations, or adjusting prong styles. Semi-custom typically adds 2-3 weeks to your timeline but creates more personalized results than purely ready-made options.

Full custom design creates a completely original ring from scratch, offering ultimate personalization and meaning. At Marks Jewelers, the custom design process includes initial consultation in the Fashion Lounge®, inspiration exploration through thousands of in-store examples, diamond selection from direct-imported stones with GIA/AGS/EGL certifications, 3D computer modeling where designers create precise digital renderings, prototype creation using 3D printing within 24 hours, customer try-on and refinement, master manufacturing where on-site jewelers create your final piece, hand stone-setting by master jewelers, and quality control with multiple inspection points.

Custom designs typically cost the same as mass-produced chain store rings because Marks Jewelers' direct diamond importing and in-house manufacturing eliminate middleman markups.

Lab-Grown vs. Natural Diamonds

Lab-grown diamonds (Marks Jewelers' ReMARKable Designs collection) offer identical chemical, physical, and optical properties to natural diamonds but cost 30-40% less. This price difference allows you to afford a larger or higher-quality diamond within the same budget, or to allocate saved funds toward your wedding, honeymoon, or home. Lab-grown diamonds appeal to environmentally-conscious couples and those prioritizing maximum visual impact per dollar.

Natural diamonds remain the traditional choice, formed over billions of years deep in the Earth. They carry inherent rarity, potential investment value, and the romantic significance of their ancient natural creation. Marks Jewelers' direct diamond importing means you're selecting from diamonds personally sourced by Jim and Dareen Brusilovsky from around the world, ensuring the finest quality at the best values by eliminating distributor markups.

Both options receive the same certification from GIA, AGS, and EGL USA, ensuring quality transparency. At Marks Jewelers, you can compare identical-specification diamonds in both natural and lab-grown to see the visual similarity while understanding the price difference.

The Marks Jewelers Advantage for Holiday Proposals

Two convenient locations: Visit the flagship Montgomeryville showroom (975 Bethlehem Pike, PA) or the new Mount Laurel location (1225 Route 73, NJ), making it easy to shop close to home regardless of where you're proposing.

Day and night expert availability: Diamond and jewelry experts are available via call or text (Montgomeryville: 215-362-7132, Mount Laurel: 856-678-0006) day and night, allowing you to ask questions and discuss options even outside regular business hours.

Complete in-house capabilities: Unlike chain stores that outsource design and manufacturing, Marks Jewelers handles everything on-site—design, 3D prototyping, manufacturing, stone-setting, and repairs—with 150+ years combined master jeweler experience. You can watch your ring being created in the visible workshop.

Direct diamond importing: Jim and Dareen Brusilovsky personally travel the world sourcing diamonds directly, eliminating middleman markups that inflate prices at most jewelers. This means you get better value—larger or higher-quality diamonds within your budget.

Educational approach: The team educates rather than pressures, teaching you about diamonds, design options, and quality factors so you can make confident decisions. The Diamond Diner® concept literally places diamonds in comfortable booth seating where you can study them privately without hovering salespeople.

Complete Planning Guide

6-8 Weeks Before Proposal

• Start ring shopping—visit Marks Jewelers for consultation

• Decide on your proposal date and research proposal locations

• Consider whether you want a photographer (book now if yes)

• Begin custom ring design if choosing this option (requires 3-4 weeks)

• Set your overall budget including ring, photographer, and celebration dinner

3-4 Weeks Before Proposal

• Finalize engagement ring selection and place order

• Scout your chosen proposal location at planned time of day

• Book photographer if using one

• Reserve celebration dinner at restaurant if planning post-proposal meal

• Verify your proposal location's hours and holiday schedules

1-2 Weeks Before Proposal

• Pick up completed engagement ring from Marks Jewelers

• Secure the ring in a safe place

• Plan your proposal words—practice what you want to say

• Confirm photographer booking and share exact proposal timing

• Check weather forecasts and plan backup indoor location if proposing outdoors

• Purchase new outfit if needed (looking good in photos matters)

Proposal Day

• Check weather forecast and confirm location or switch to backup

• Check that ring box is secure and easily accessible

• Arrive at location early to settle nerves

• Contact photographer 30 minutes before arrival to confirm position

• Take deep breaths and remember why you're doing this

• Propose from the heart—the words matter less than the sincerity

Immediately After "Yes"

• Take selfies together with the new ring visible

• Call/text immediate family with the news

• Share news with close friends

• Celebrate at your planned dinner

• Post engagement announcement on social media (after telling family)

• Schedule ring resizing appointment if needed

Expert Tips from Marks Jewelers

Jim and Dareen Brusilovsky, co-owners of Marks Jewelers with over 40 years combined jewelry industry experience, share their expert insights for holiday proposals.

On Timing Your Ring Shopping

"We see too many couples rush into ring selection during the first week of December for Christmas proposals, feeling stressed and pressured by the timeline," Jim explains. "The couples who have the best experience and most satisfying results start shopping in October or early November. Custom design requires 3-4 weeks—if you want to propose Christmas Day, you should be meeting with our design team by late November at the latest."

Dareen adds, "Starting early also allows you to educate yourself about diamonds and design options without feeling rushed. You'll make more confident decisions when you're not stressed about your proposal deadline."

On Custom Design vs. Ready-Made Rings

"Many couples assume custom design is either too expensive or too time-consuming, but neither is true at Marks," Dareen notes. "Our direct diamond importing and in-house manufacturing means custom rings often cost the same as mass-produced rings at chain stores. You're getting a one-of-a-kind ring designed specifically for your partner at essentially the same price as buying something generic off the shelf."

Jim emphasizes the emotional value: "When you propose with a custom ring you designed together with our team, you can tell your partner, 'I designed this specifically for you.' That story—that this ring exists nowhere else in the world—adds meaning beyond just the physical object."

On Diamond Selection Strategy

"Here's what I tell every customer: prioritize cut quality above everything else," Jim advises. "An excellently-cut diamond with slightly lower color or clarity grades will look more brilliant than a poorly-cut diamond with perfect color and clarity. Cut determines sparkle—and sparkle is what catches people's eyes."

Dareen adds practical advice: "Most couples find the best value in the VS1-VS2 clarity range and G-I color range. These grades look completely clean and colorless to the naked eye but cost thousands less than VVS clarity or D-F color. You can either save that money or use it toward a larger diamond—either way, you're making a smarter purchase."

On Proposal Location Selection

"The best proposal location is one that's meaningful to your relationship," Dareen emphasizes. "Yes, Longwood Gardens and the Art Museum steps are beautiful and photogenic, but if those places hold no significance for you as a couple, they're just pretty backdrops. Consider places where you had important moments—where you first met, had your first date, or fell in love."

Jim adds practical advice: "Whatever location you choose, visit it at the exact time of day you plan to propose. You need to know what the lighting will be like, how crowded it will be, and where you'll position yourself. Scouting ahead prevents disappointments."

On Weather Contingencies

"Every December proposal in the Philadelphia area needs a backup plan," Jim stresses. "We've seen too many couples devastated when their carefully planned outdoor proposal gets rained out or faces 20-degree weather with howling wind. Always have an indoor alternative ready—a restaurant, the Fashion Lounge® here at Marks, a museum, or a hotel."

Dareen adds: "Don't feel like you've failed if you have to use your backup location. Some of our favorite proposal stories we've heard happened at backup locations because the couple relaxed about the change and focused on the moment rather than stressing about the original plan."

On Budget Conversations

"The '3 months salary' rule is marketing nonsense that puts unfair pressure on couples," Jim states firmly. "Spend what makes sense for your complete financial picture—your wedding costs, honeymoon, housing plans, and other priorities. A $3,000 ring is no less meaningful than a $30,000 ring if it's given with love and represents what you can responsibly afford."

Dareen emphasizes: "What matters is that you're making a thoughtful investment in quality that will last forever. We work with every budget from $1,500 to $50,000 and above—everyone receives the same expert attention, custom design options, and quality craftsmanship."

Frequently Asked Questions

When is the best time to propose during the holidays?

Christmas Day ranks as the most popular proposal day, accounting for more engagements than any other date. Christmas Eve, New Year's Eve, and New Year's Day follow as the next most popular choices. However, the "best" time depends on your specific relationship and circumstances. Christmas Day works wonderfully if your families celebrate together and you want to share news immediately. New Year's Eve offers dramatic midnight countdown romance. Consider which date aligns best with your partner's preferences and family schedules rather than simply following popularity trends.

How far in advance should I start shopping for an engagement ring?

Begin ring shopping 6-8 weeks before your planned proposal date for optimal timing without stress. Custom engagement ring design typically requires 3-4 weeks from initial consultation through design, prototype creation, manufacturing, and finishing. Even ready-made rings usually need sizing adjustments, requiring 1-2 weeks. If you're proposing Christmas Day, begin ring shopping by early November at the latest.

Should I propose indoors or outdoors during winter?

Both indoor and outdoor winter proposals offer advantages. Outdoor proposals provide beautiful natural settings and potential for scenic photos with snow or holiday lights. However, December weather can be cold, rainy, or snowy. Indoor proposals offer weather protection, comfort, and temperature control. Many couples choose a hybrid approach: propose outdoors at a scenic location during favorable weather, with a backup indoor location ready if conditions deteriorate. Locations like Longwood Gardens offer both stunning indoor conservatories and outdoor light displays.

What are the most romantic proposal spots near Mount Laurel, NJ?

Mount Laurel's location provides easy access to exceptional proposal locations. Within 15 minutes, Cooper River Park offers scenic waterfront views and beautiful gazebos. Within 30 minutes, Grounds for Sculpture features 42 acres of contemporary art installations. Longwood Gardens (40 minutes) offers the premier holiday proposal destination with 550,000+ lights. Philadelphia's Rittenhouse Square (20 minutes) provides urban charm with holiday lights, while the Art Museum steps (25 minutes) offer iconic skyline views.

What makes Marks Jewelers different from chain jewelry stores?

Marks Jewelers handles everything on-site with in-house design, 3D prototyping, manufacturing, and stone-setting by master jewelers with 150+ years combined experience. Direct diamond importing by Jim and Dareen Brusilovsky eliminates middleman markups that inflate chain store prices. The unique Fashion Lounge® offers pressure-free consultation, while the Diamond Diner® concept provides intimate booth seating where you study diamonds privately. Custom design costs the same as mass-produced chain store rings due to eliminated middleman markups.

What are the advantages of lab-grown vs. natural diamonds?

Lab-grown diamonds cost 30-40% less than natural diamonds of identical specifications while being chemically, physically, and optically identical. They allow you to afford larger sizes or higher quality grades within your budget and appeal to environmentally-conscious couples. Natural diamonds offer traditional symbolism, inherent rarity, and better resale value. Both options are certified by GIA, AGS, and EGL USA. The choice depends on whether you prioritize maximum size and value (lab-grown) or traditional symbolism and rarity (natural).

How do I keep my proposal plans secret?

Hide the ring somewhere your partner never accesses (not obvious locations like sock drawers). Consider keeping it at a trusted friend's house, in your car trunk, or at your workplace. Maintain normal behavior—avoid suddenly acting secretive with your phone or being evasive about plans. Use private browsing for proposal research and delete search history regularly. Tell only essential people your plans and emphasize the importance of secrecy. Frame the proposal day as a normal date or holiday outing, not a "very special day" that triggers suspicion.

Should I hire a photographer for my proposal?

Professional proposal photography provides lasting memories and typically costs $300-800 for 1-2 hours coverage in the Philadelphia area. Advantages include guaranteed high-quality images, capturing authentic emotional reactions, and professional editing expertise. However, professional photography isn't essential if budget is limited. Alternatives include recruiting a skilled friend with good camera equipment or using smartphone video mode to capture the entire proposal then extracting still photos later. If hiring a professional, book 2-3 months ahead for popular holiday dates.

How much should I spend on an engagement ring?

Engagement ring budgets vary based on personal finances and priorities, with no universal "right" amount. Recent data shows average spending around $5,200, but meaningful rings exist at every price point. Ignore the outdated "three months' salary" guideline and spend what's comfortable for your complete financial picture including wedding costs, honeymoon, and housing. At Marks Jewelers, we work with every budget from $1,500 to $50,000+ because meaningful rings exist at every price point when you prioritize quality craftsmanship and thoughtful design.

Can I propose with a temporary ring and let her choose later?

Proposing with a placeholder ring works perfectly for many couples. You can propose on your perfect date without waiting for custom design completion, and your partner gets involved in selecting her ring design and diamond. This approach works well if you're confident your partner wants to be involved in ring selection and values collaborative decision-making. However, many partners prefer the romance and surprise of receiving the finished ring during the proposal. You can also split the difference by designing the ring together but keeping the proposal timing as a surprise.

Start Your Proposal Journey

Planning a holiday proposal in South Jersey and the Philadelphia suburbs combines the season's magic with the commitment of a lifetime. From Longwood Gardens' breathtaking 550,000-light display to intimate moments along Cooper River, from historic Philadelphia landmarks to peaceful nature preserves, the Delaware Valley offers extraordinary settings for your life-changing question.

The most important elements of a successful proposal aren't the location, the photographer, or even the ring's carat weight—they're the authentic emotion, genuine commitment, and thoughtful preparation you bring to the moment. Start your ring selection 6-8 weeks before your planned proposal date, choose a location meaningful to your relationship, prepare for weather contingencies, and focus on expressing your love sincerely.

Visit Marks Jewelers Today

With over 40 years of expertise serving South Jersey and Philadelphia-area couples, Marks Jewelers provides everything needed for your perfect holiday proposal.

Montgomeryville Flagship Location:
975 Bethlehem Pike, Montgomeryville, PA 18936
Phone: (215) 362-7132 (Call/Text - Available Day & Night)

Mount Laurel Location:
1225 Route 73, Mount Laurel, NJ 08054
Phone: (856) 678-0006 (Call/Text - Available Day & Night)

Store Hours (Both Locations):
Monday: Closed | Tuesday: 11:00 AM - 5:00 PM
Wednesday-Thursday: 11:00 AM - 8:00 PM | Friday: 11:00 AM - 6:00 PM
Saturday: 10:00 AM - 5:00 PM | Sunday: Closed

Walk in during business hours to explore Delaware Valley's largest indoor jewelry shopping area, or schedule a consultation in our pressure-free Fashion Lounge®. Our diamond and jewelry experts are available day and night via call or text to answer questions and help you plan your perfect proposal.

Your perfect holiday proposal starts here. Visit Marks Jewelers today and let us help you create the moment she'll remember forever.